Chef Kieron Hales: A Conversation From Zingerman's Cornman Farms In Michigan

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I’M KASSATA BOLLMAN. 

TODAY MY GUEST IS CHEF KIERON HALES.

HE JOINS US FROM MICHIGAN…..

WHERE...CURRENTLY….. HE’S CHEF & OWNER OF ZINGERMAN’S CORNMAN FARMS….A 42-ACRE WORKING FARM….. AND LUXURY EVENT VENUE.

CHEF HALES GREW UP IN A SMALL VILLAGE IN ENGLAND.

HIS CAREER BEGAN AT THE AGE OF 13…. WHEN HE WAS ACCEPTED INTO THE ROYAL ACADEMY OF CULINARY ARTS. 

HIS JOURNEY TO THE PRESENT MOMENT HAS BEEN ONE FULL OF ABUNDANCE…..

HE’S COOKED IN 27 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES….WORKED AT MICHELIN STAR RESTAURANTS…..COOKED FOR THE BRITISH ROYAL FAMILY…… AND THREE U.S. PRESIDENTS. 

WE’LL BE DISCUSSING…. 

HIS TIME WORKING WITH PAUL BOCUSE…….

ALSO…….WE’LL TOUCH ON AN IDEA FROM PHILOSOPHER ALAN WATTS….THAT LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY….IN FACT THE DESTINATION DOESN’T EVEN EXIST….

PLUS….WE’LL EXPLORE THE IDEA OF SETTING UP YOUR LIFE…..BASED ON YOUR PERSONAL VALUES AND BOUNDARIES….

SO I’LL START BY ASKING…..AS WE ALWAYS DO….CHEF HALES…..

 “HAVE YOU EATEN YET?”......

THIS COULD BE A MEAL FROM TODAY  …...OR….. IT COULD BE A MEAL FROM ANYTIME IN YOUR LIFE…. THAT YOU HAVE A REALLY GREAT MEMORY ABOUT…..

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

EARLY LIFE

YOU GREW UP IN A VERY SMALL VILLAGE IN ENGLAND….ONLY 300 PEOPLE LIVED THERE…YOU WERE THE ONLY CHILD IN YOUR YEAR….. AT THE THREE ROOM SCHOOLHOUSE THAT YOU ATTENDED…

DURING THAT TIME YOUR FATHER PASSES AWAY….

AT THE AGE OF 13….YOU’RE ACCEPTED INTO THE ROYAL ACADEMY OF CULINARY ARTS…..

AND FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS….YOU’RE WORKING IN KITCHENS IN ENGLAND AND FRANCE……

ALL OF THAT DESCRIBES LIFE-CHANGING EVENTS OF GREAT MAGNITUDE…..AT A VERY YOUNG AGE….AND AT A FORMATIVE TIME IN YOUR LIFE…..

YOU DEALT WITH DEATH….LEAVING YOUR SMALL VILLAGE….. SETTING OUT TO CREATE A CAREER FOR YOURSELF…..

PLEASE TAKE ME BACK TO THAT TIME IN YOUR LIFE….AND DESCRIBE HOW YOU WERE PROCESSING….. SO MANY CHANGES…. ALL AT ONCE…..

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

CHEF LIFE

YOU HAVE LIVED AND COOKED IN MORE COUNTRIES THAN I’VE EVER BEEN TO….. 27 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES…. 

IN A PREVIOUS INTERVIEW YOU SAID QUOTE:

“IT WAS A REALLY FUN EXPERIENCE…..BUT IT WAS EXHAUSTING…..BETWEEN THE CONSTANT TRAVELING….. AND THE WORK HOURS.” 

I’D LOVE FOR YOU TO DIVE A LITTLE DEEPER HERE….DID YOU DO ALL OF THIS TRAVELING DURING YOUR TWENTIES?.......WHAT WAS THE AVERAGE LENGTH OF STAY AT EACH RESTAURANT?.....

TAKE US BACK TO THE MOMENT YOU GRADUATE…. UNTIL YOU START TO SLOW DOWN A BIT….

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

PAUL BOCUSE

WHILE IN FRANCE….YOU WORKED WITH PAUL BOCUSE…

I WANT TO SPEND SOME TIME HERE TO SOAK IN THAT ENTIRE EXPERIENCE…

HOW DID YOU GET IN THE DOOR?......AND  WHAT IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPACTFUL IDEA….THAT YOU LEARNED FROM HIM? 

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

AND WHAT’S ONE THING THAT WOULD SURPRISE US ABOUT PAUL BOCUSE?

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

WHAT’S THE BIGGEST MISCONCEPTION ABOUT WORKING IN A MICHELIN STAR RESTAURANT? …. 

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

TURNING POINT

YOU GET TO A POINT IN YOUR CAREER WHERE YOU HAVE LOTS OF EXPERIENCE BUT THERE’S SOMETHING MISSING….

IN A PREVIOUS INTERVIEW YOU SAY QUOTE:

“I WORKED IN A LOT OF ONE, TWO AND THREE-STAR MICHELIN RESTAURANTS…. SO I KNEW HOW TO MAKE BEAUTIFUL FOOD…. COOK IT REALLY WELL….BUT THE PASSION BEHIND THE FOOD WAS MISSING…..THE ‘WHY’ I REALLY WANTED TO DO IT…...”

SO YOU GO BACK TO THE UK….TAKE A BIG CUT IN PAY…..AND WORK AT A SMALL INDEPENDENT RESTAURANT……

YOU WERE ON A TRACK THAT WAS MOVING FORWARD….

ANOTHER CHEF MIGHT HAVE STAYED ON THAT TRACK….INSTEAD OF LEAVING MONEY ON THE TABLE….AND TAKING WHAT SOME MIGHT CONSIDER…. THE SCARY PATH OF THE UNKNOWN…….

HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT THIS PATH… WAS THE RIGHT ONE FOR YOU?

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

DESIRE TO BE AN OWNER

DURING THIS TIME WHILE YOU’RE BACK IN ENGLAND….. YOU HAVE ANOTHER EPIPHANY…. YOU WANT TO BE AN OWNER…..TELL ME ABOUT THIS TIME IN YOUR LIFE….WHAT STAGE OF LIFE ARE YOU IN?.....ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP? ARE YOU HYPER FOCUSED ON THE NEXT CHAPTER ?

IT SEEMS LIKE A TRULY INTROSPECTIVE TIME IN YOUR LIFE….

WHERE AGAIN YOU’RE TAKING ON MASSIVE CHANGE….JUST LIKE WHEN YOU WERE 13…..

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

CORNMAN FARMS

IN 2008….YOU ARRIVE HERE IN THE US…..AND JOIN ZINGERMAN’S….TO PURSUE BEING AN ENTREPRENEUR.

YOU OPEN ZINGERMAN'S CORNMAN FARMS….

A 42-ACRE FARM…. AND SPECIAL EVENTS VENUE….. 20 MINUTES FROM DOWNTOWN ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN.

THE PROPERTY HAS WORKING PASTURES….A CHEF’S GARDEN….A RESTORED BARN…. AND A FARMHOUSE.

AFTER WORKING IN 27 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES…..AND COUNTLESS RESTAURANTS…. WHAT IS THE MOST REWARDING THING…..FOR YOU….THESE DAYS…..WHEN IT COMES TO WORK?

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY

PERSONALLY….I BELIEVE THAT THE JOURNEY…. IS ALWAYS GREATER THAN THE DESTINATION. …..

BRITISH PHILOSOPHER ALAN WATTS BELIEVES THAT LIFE SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A JOURNEY….. BECAUSE THE END IS NOT THE PRIMARY GOAL…..

I THINK WATTS AND I BASICALLY SEE EYE TO EYE…..IT’S THE WORD JOURNEY THAT WE MAY DIFFER ON…..HOWEVER LITERAL WE DECIDE TO TAKE THAT WORD….

BUT HIS IDEA IS THAT LIFE IS LIKE MUSIC……THE DOING OR PLAYING…. IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN REACHING THE END. 

THE GENERAL TAKEAWAY IS THAT LIFE IS A GIFT…..LIVE IN THE MOMENT AND ENJOY IT….

PLAYING BRINGS US BACK TO THE PRESENT MOMENT….YOU HAVE CHILDREN…SO I IMAGINE THAT PLAYING IS SOMETHING YOU DO OFTEN…

YOU HAVE LIVED A FULL LIFE….IN MANY PLACES AROUND THE WORLD….

DO YOU LOOK AT YOUR LIFE….AND HAVE A PRIMARY GOAL….OR DO YOU LOOK AT ALL THE PATHS…. THAT LED YOU TO THE PRESENT MOMENT ? 

OR DO YOU TAKE A HYBRID APPROACH WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT LIFE?

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

PERSONAL VALUES

AS A BUSINESS OWNER….A FATHER…..A HUSBAND….YOU’RE PULLED IN MANY DIRECTIONS….BEING CONNECTED TO YOUR CORE IS IMPORTANT ON A DAILY BASIS…..

THAT DICTATES WHAT YOU DEDICATE TIME AND ENERGY TO…..

WHETHER YOU’RE AWARE OR NOT….THE CHOICES YOU MAKE EACH DAY…SET THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE…….

IF YOU THINK ABOUT A TYPICAL WEEK IN YOUR LIFE…..WHAT ARE YOUR PERSONAL VALUES…..OR BOUNDARIES….THAT YOU GENERALLY FOLLOW….. TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN ORDER….. PERSONALLY……PROFESSIONALLY….. OR BOTH?

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

FINDING INSPIRATION

HOW DO YOU CONTINUE TO FIND INSPIRATION EACH YEAR ? ......

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

FUTURE

WHAT DOES YOUR IDEAL FUTURE LOOK LIKE ?......

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

SYNCHRONICITIES

HAVE THERE EVER BEEN ANY SIGNS OR SYNCHRONICITIES IN YOUR LIFE…. THAT LED TO NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOU….. IN THIS INDUSTRY? ……. 

IF SO, PLEASE DESCRIBE THE MOMENT….

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

FLOW STATE:

A FLOW STATE, ALSO KNOWN AS BEING IN THE ZONE…. IS THE MENTAL STATE WHEN A PERSON IS PERFORMING AN ACTIVITY….. AND IS FULLY IMMERSED…. IN A FEELING OF ENERGIZED FOCUS, CLARITY  AND ENJOYMENT…. IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS…..

IT DOESN’T FEEL LIKE WORK….IT’S EFFORTLESS ATTENTION….. THAT YOU’RE GIVING THE ACTIVITY…..IT’S A EUPHORIC FEELING… 

IT’S DURING THIS ALTERED STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS…. THAT YOUR MIND FUNCTIONS… AT ITS PEAK….AND A SENSE OF HAPPINESS… FLOWS THROUGH YOUR BODY.

FOR YOU IT COULD BE DURING SERVICE PERHAPS…..

I DID READ IN A PREVIOUS INTERVIEW THAT YOU CONSIDERED YOUR SANCTUARY TO BE ANY KITCHEN….. BEFORE OR AFTER OTHERS COME IN….. WHEN THERE IS CALM AND SILENCE……SO FOR YOU….. IT COULD BE CONNECTED TO THAT ENVIRONMENT……

I’M WONDERING …..AS A CHEF, HAVE YOU EVER REACHED THIS STATE ?.....

IF YOU HAVE….PLEASE DESCRIBE YOUR SURROUNDINGS…. LEADING IT UP TO IT….

AND WHAT IT FELT LIKE…. BEING IN THAT STATE?

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

TAKEAWAY:

CHEF HALES, THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR STORY WITH US …

AS YOU KNOW……I BELIEVE THAT THE JOURNEY…. IS ALWAYS GREATER THAN THE DESTINATION. 

IT’S ON THE PATH THAT WE LEARN….EVOLVE AND….. ENCOUNTER LESSONS…. THAT SHAPE US…. INTO OUR BEST SELVES.

I ALWAYS LIKE ENDING THE PODCAST…. BY ASKING…. IF THERE’S ANY TAKEAWAY THAT YOU’D LIKE TO LEAVE WITH LISTENERS…... THAT CAN POSITIVELY INFLUENCE THEIR LIVES.

IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED…. A LESSON YOU’VE LEARNED ON YOUR JOURNEY…. OR GENERAL LIFE ADVICE THAT YOU LIVE BY ….…

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

AND WHERE CAN PEOPLE FOLLOW YOU  ?

[[CHEF HALES DISCUSSES]]

OUTRO:

THANKS FOR LISTENING….AND IF YOU HAVEN’T ALREADY….... FOLLOW  “HAVE YOU EATEN YET?” ….WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS….

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